Curse

Cebe · Nov 20, 2007, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Because it's really not as much fun playing a class that can't do massive damage in PvE.

Also, in PvE you know the Monster isn't cursing at the monitor when you divert his Blessed Signet, or interrupt his Healsig, or Blind him with Ineptitude. There's a great pleasure in knowing you're irritating the hell outta your opponent in PvP. You don't get that in PvE with Mesmers.

Then there are the things you can see visually on screen. If you're playing in a PuG with a Mesmer it's not obvious what they're adding to the team, since you can't see them hacking at the enemy, or blowing stuff up like an Ele, or creating minions or spirits. They're just stood at the back sneakily interrupting key spells and silently punishing enemies with hexes. You notice if an enemy manages to cast Firestorm on you and your team is stood in it, but if a Mesmer interrupts it, you never see it, and never realise how much damage the Mesmer potentially negated by doing so. It's almost as though the better Mesmers are less noticed.

That being said, I played through all 3 campaigns and Eye of the North with my Mesmer. Some great times were had and didn't find it vastly difficult to get into a group when I did decide to PuG. Just luck I guess.

VinnyRidira · Nov 20, 2007, 01:16 PM // 13:16

I have a mesmer that has done all three campaigns. I much prefer playing my necro, ele and ritualist. I played a mesmer in a 8 mesmer group as a ritualist. It is an awesome secondary for a mesmer. Either as a channeler or a restorer. I played one of the healers for the group. Flesh of my Flesh is an awesome resurrect spell. The death pact signet is also pretty good.

FalconDance · Nov 20, 2007, 01:34 PM // 13:34

True there aren't many mesmers in PvE but only because most people either don't understand or can't be bothered learning how to play the profession!

My first mesmer (back in the day) henched it to the Crystal Desert because she could NOT get into a party. Sadly, I didn't have enough knowledge to get her through Ascension successfully. Her 'sister', however, in the past year + has now gone through Prophecies, damned near all of Cantha and a goodly part of Elona - and is at endgame GWEN.

Heck, if nothing else, a mesmer should be in every party just to bring up the fashion status

!

Avarre · Nov 20, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

I wrote a wall of text explaining this some time ago. Most of it is still relevant.

The whole 'invisible effects' argument is nonsense to me. The best ele offense, for example, is Mind Blast/Rodgort's, neither of which have gigantic animations. The whole point is a cliche people clung onto back when echo meteor shower and firestorms were the way to go and has long since been entirely irrelevant. How visible is a Paragon, the best PvE class in the game? This argument often goes hand in hand with 'if you were experienced you would know how powerful they are', which is also void (and seems to be 'fashionable' to claim) - a seriously experienced player will understand Mesmers serve no solid role and any player who is good at the game would do better on a class more suited to PvE.

A better reason would be that a Mesmer serves no effective primary role in the process of succeeding at PvE. The specific role a Mesmer plays is not related to PvE for the most part due to the structure of gameplay (outlined in my essay). The use of a Mesmer, therefore, falls into emulating other classes, such as dealing damage or interrupting, while remaining inferior to a class with this as their primary role (eles and rangers respectively).

Claiming Mesmers are good because they succeed is not a valid argument. That is like saying using 3 people to clear FoW is good. Yes, it works. No, it is not as effective as having 8 people. In PvE, succeeding and being good at PvE are immensely different.

In summary, you don't see them because they're bad.

Saphatorael · Nov 20, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

I've seen plenty of mesma's in PvE... there's like, the Stone Summit Drawfs... and Erys Vasburg might be the second best (after Gwen ofc) Mesma in the game, especially since he's Kuzack and stuff.

upier · Nov 20, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

Heck, if nothing else, a mesmer should be in every party just to bring up the fashion status

!

Let's not even joke about that anymore.
Because it sometimes seems that A.Net thinks we REALLY think that way.

Faer · Nov 20, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

I saw a Mesma last week. His secondary was Worriar.

Was he a Drawf?

The Sender · Nov 20, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

The Mesmer is a species rarely seen outside of PvP. There have been very few reports of Mesmer sightings in the wild. Some still believe that a Mesmer in PvE, much like Bigfoot, simply does not exist. Creatures such as the Warriors, Elementalists, Assassins and even Monks are commonly sighted in PvE and are in great abundance. Unlike the Mesmer, they exist in phenomenal numbers and are commonly seen feeding on the wide range of monsters that occur in PvE.

Some claim that these professions hunt monsters with greater efficiency than the Mesmer, thus leaving nothing for the Mesmer to feed on. Another theory is that there are plenty of other Warrior/Assassin/Monk etc. for the Warrior/Assassin/Monk etc. in PvE to mate with, thus, the population of these aforementioned professions is booming.

As a result, Mesmers commonly thrive in PvP, where there will always be a plentiful supply of prey for them to feed on. The PMFoT (Profession Management Federation of Tyria) is considering labelling the Mesmer an endangered species in PvE and moving them into captivity in order to prevent extinction.

Here is a rare photo of a PvE Mesmer, taken in November 2006.

If anybody has any information on PvE Mesmers please contact me at 1-800-SAVE-THE-MESMERS.

Dreikki · Nov 20, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

My old main was a mesmer.
I created a monk after I noticed it's impossible to get a group was a mesmer.

After playing a bit as a SF ele I don't wonder why.

Yarghetaus · Nov 20, 2007, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Sender

Here is a rare photo of a PvE Mesmer, taken in November 2006.

If anybody has any information on PvE Mesmers please contact me at 1-800-SAVE-THE-MESMERS.

I LoL'd.

Anyway, from my little-experienced narrow-minded point of view, the choice is simple and depends on whatever is needed:

Interruption: then, with absolutely no remorse, I take an Hero. Human players won't ever be as fast as AI at interrupting.

Hex: then I'll take a human player. I PUG'd 2 days ago with a Mesmer player to do Boogrot Growths and it was both funny and effective (probably because of the coupling with my curse hero).

Just my 2 cents.

Toutatis · Nov 20, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Mesmers are rare because their particular skills are based around denial, disruption, misdirection and subversion. These concepts are not easy for the average mind to grasp (especially with the "kill kill kill" mentality that dominates PvE) and it takes a lot of time and effort to learn how to use these abilities to any effect.

That being said, there are a fair number of intrepid souls who don't shy away from the challenge of playing as a mesmer, myself included. My mesmer is my oldest, and most favoured, character; I'm a bit of a sly person IRL (no, I'm not ashamed of that) and I feel that's helped me get to grips with the mesmer's particular collection of skills more naturally.

The mesmer does have its place in PvE and they can be a great asset to a party, although the profession isn't really designed to take on all of the specific challenges that PvE has to offer; fights tend to be over before the mesmer's most powerful abilities have had much of a chance to really get to work. Half of mesmerisation is a waiting game, and PvE offers little or no chances to wait for the right moment. All this changes in the PvP arenas, where extended pressure becomes more important than a flat-out killfest and there is more time to choose the right moment.

gerg-nad · Nov 20, 2007, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I have a mesmer and completed Prophecies with it, but lost interest through Factions. The primary problem with Mesmers are
1. There Primary Attribute, Fast Casting, has little effect on the PvE game
2. Recharge times on most of there skills are too long

The class plays best as a secondary as you do not loose much without fast casting. There are some very good skills in Mesmer, Arcane Echo, Echo, etc., but as a primary class I see little advantage with Fast Casting attribute. If it decrease the recharge time, now there would be a reason to have a Primary Mesmer.

I think mesmers could be a great interupter and denial, but unfortunately you have to augment their skills bar a lot to shorten the recharge times. Once you have done that they can help in heavy foe caster areas, but like someone else said a hero may do better then most humans. Anet makes you use the mesmer GWEN to do the Burning Forest (EotN), which does help, because it is a heavy foe casting area.

Cobalt · Nov 20, 2007, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

A better reason would be that a Mesmer serves no effective primary role in the process of succeeding at PvE. The specific role a Mesmer plays is not related to PvE for the most part due to the structure of gameplay (outlined in my essay). The use of a Mesmer, therefore, falls into emulating other classes, such as dealing damage or interrupting, while remaining inferior to a class with this as their primary role (eles and rangers respectively).

Claiming Mesmers are good because they succeed is not a valid argument. That is like saying using 3 people to clear FoW is good. Yes, it works. No, it is not as effective as having 8 people. In PvE, succeeding and being good at PvE are immensely different.

In summary, you don't see them because they're bad.

Could not have said it better myself!

foo · Nov 20, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

There was a secret nerf that removed all mesmers, sorry mesmas from the game. Next stop paragons.

you mean paragos.

Rushin Roulette · Nov 20, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sab
I saw a Mesma last week. His secondary was Worriar.

Was he a Drawf?

Nope, she was probably a Nron... but mildly interrested in Glod though.

Yanman.be · Nov 20, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

I have a level 14 perma Shing Jea character.

Esan · Nov 20, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

A mesmer signet build with smiting signets and Holy Wrath can make the so-called difficult Elonan areas, Joko's Domain and Poisoned Outcrops, very doable. They are the only areas in the entire game that really tested my resolve to h/h Legendary Vanquisher.

Two-three Wastrel's Worry mesmers reduce Kuunavang to a triviality in HM.

A Psychic Distraction mesmer hero can completely shut down the really really bad bosses (Wavecrest Stonebeak, Podaltur the Angry, Bohdalz the Furious), making their respective areas trivial to vanquish with h/h.

These are about the only places I'd bring a mesmer in PvE.

Antheus · Nov 20, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

The only classes I bring into HM are necros and mesmers. Your milage may vary.

Tarkin · Nov 20, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Godly support for SF, cond spread rangers, warriors, dervishs...
[skill]Fevered Dreams[/skill][skill]Frustration[/skill][skill]Accumulated Pain[/skill][skill]Kitah's Burden[/skill][skill]Epidemic[/skill][skill]Revealed Enchantment[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

Advance
[skill]Fevered Dreams[/skill][skill]Arcane Conundrum[/skill][skill]Accumulated Pain[/skill]Technobabble + Finish Him![skill]Epidemic[/skill][skill]Hypochondria[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

Sadly heros dont use Fevered Dreams... i put fevered dreams in heros... and they rarely use it...
Any regular team with a mesmer with this build will speed up damage an avoid damage from casters...

P.S. interupter is ranger job...

Mordakai · Nov 20, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Mesmers are not "bad" in PvE. Like any class, they serve their purpose.

I read Avarre's "wall of text" ( http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10129170 ), and I agree that Mesmers are not the best class at doing AoE damage. BUT, they are probably the BEST class at shutting down bosses. Empathy in hard mode isn't bad either, and all Mesmer damage is armor-ignoring.

But, there are always two main types of players: the hard core number crunchers who will tell you that Mesmers suck for DPS, and the players that say, "yeah, but she has sexy armor." Part of PvE is making up characters that are fun, not just the "best combo".

I enjoy giving my Mesmer a IW Scythe and wreaking havok on groups of monsters. Is the most effective build? Probably not. But it's fun for me, and in the end, that's all that really matters, especially in PvE.

EDIT: After more reflection, I wonder if the lack of new decent skills for the Mesmer is a sign of her demise...

I, for one, hope not. The Mesmer is a great class concept that could use some tweaks in GW2, but doesn't deserve to go.